Read the full transcript of Episode 68 of the NAIS New View EDU podcast, which features NAIS President Debra P. Wilson speaking with Jalaj Desai, head of Saddle River Day School (NJ), about how he’s using AI to transform his school.
Debra Wilson: Hello friends! I’m so excited for today’s conversation.
Jalaj Desai is the head of school at Saddle River Day School in New Jersey, and I have to say, the first time I met him was at an NJIS event in the Spring of 2024, and the amount of activity on this campus is just incredible and I can’t wait for us to jump into this conversation.
A little bit of background about Jalaj: He holds a bachelor’s degree in chemical engineering and two master’s degrees, one in computer science, one in educational leadership. He began his teaching career at Dwight Englewood, where he taught Upper School math classes. He advised the financial and consulting club and coached soccer and tennis. And prior to joining Saddle River, he was the head of the math department at Rutgers Prep, where he was also the head of the Business and Entrepreneurship Program. It’s just such a, I think just such a gift to talk to someone who is so excited and passionate about the work that he and his team are doing at the school and the amount of change and innovation that they have managed to implement in a short period of time. So with no further ado, let’s jump into this conversation.
Jalaj, it's so good to see you. Thank you for being with us on New View EDU.
Jalaj Desai: Thank you for having me. It's my honor to be here on this podcast.
Debra Wilson: Excellent. I'm so excited because every time I've spoken with you, whether it's in person or via Zoom, you are so excited about the things happening at your school, and you have done so much. So I want to start first at the beginning. Tell me a little bit about your journey. How did you get to become the head at Saddle River Day School?
Jalaj Desai: It's a very interesting journey because my undergraduate is in chemical engineering and my master's was in computer science. Somehow I got a teaching job at Dwight Englewood School in Englewood, New Jersey. And the rest is history. That's how got in education. I taught there for nine years. Did my master's in education leadership. Then went to Rutgers Prep as head of the math department and also did the entrepreneurship program there.
Eventually came to Saddle River Day school as head of the high school, head of the upper school. And in my, after my two years as being head of upper school, I became interim head of school at Saddle River Day in 2019 and then COVID hit 2020. And I continued as a head of school. And now here I am talking to you.
Debra Wilson: So tell me about that, because it does seem like you used the pandemic a little bit as a slingshot moment for the school to really lean into innovation. So sort of give me like an overview of, you become, you're named head of school and knowing you a little bit, you really probably started really leaning into innovation. So tell me a little bit about that and just some of the changes you've seen that impact on the big picture of the school overall.
Jalaj Desai: Yeah, I mean, the …2019 was definitely a very interesting year. Before pandemic, actually, the school was going through some turbulent times. And the Board of Trustees had put their faith in me to kind of stabilize the school. We were around 300 and 290, kids in K-12, pre-K-12 setting. At that point, we had four board chairs in seven months, which tells you a lot about the kind of turnover that we were having.
And then COVID hit. In spite of all that, we decided to keep our focus on innovation. We launched Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship in 2019. The very first thing we did as an administrative team is we went on a retreat for two nights, three days. And we kind of figured out where is the school right now? What do we want this school to be in the next three, five, seven years? And kind of made that plan, very ambitious plan about going towards that, not knowing COVID was going to hit in 2020. But we did not stop even though COVID, it was all the COVID years. We decided to keep going.
Our number of APs and advanced classes that we had in 2019 was 12. Now we stand at 32 advanced and AP classes, and that all started in 2019. We started a new business and entrepreneurship track in 2019, computer science tracks in 2019. Many other offerings that were launched in 2019 with only, as I said, 300 kids in an old school, and it worked.
And we kept growing. We currently sit at 545 this school year. In the last four years we have grown almost 80% in the enrollment and we continue to grow. And we launched STEM programs, we launched honors gateway diploma programs, we launched business tracks for four years. Now we offer six business classes in our school. Art major, we started lower school production, middle school productions in theater. We expanded offerings in every single area of the school.
And the best thing about, Debra, during COVID year, what we learned is if the team comes together, anything is possible. I always say one thing, innovation at Saddle River Day School is simple. I say know your school, your community, and the students you want to attract. It's not about trying too hard, but making thoughtful, meaningful changes that enhance a student experience and the teacher experience, while staying focused on the academic excellence. People sometimes try too hard for innovation, and they think they have to do these crazy things to innovate. No, no. Keep it simple, and you'll be successful.
We have tried many, many things and, you know, eight out of 10 things work. Those two things didn't work. Move on and don't worry about them.
Debra Wilson: You know, I love a good, this didn't work story. So like, tell me what didn't work. Like, what were you like, yeah, that's really going to be a thing. And you decided, no, that's not going to, for whatever reason, that's not going to come together.
Jalaj Desai: Well, one of the things I'll talk to you about in a short while is the AI tool, like what we tried, what worked, what didn't work. And that's the beauty of our school. We don't really worry about what did not work. We try different things. And if it doesn't work, it's OK and move on. We teach our kids the same exact thing. Don't get stuck up with what didn't work. We kind of evaluate the situation, see why it didn't work, and then simply move on.
So we wanted to offer a few classes in ninth grade, eighth and ninth grade that had to do with humanities. At that point, we tried to offer evening classes and it didn't just take off, or even summer classes. It was important for us to offer those. We kept trying a couple of years. It didn't work. We dropped the idea eventually. You don't want to keep trying the same thing over and over again.
But on the other hand, the same exact theory, we offered Latin as our third language, fourth language this year. And we saw a strong interest, not strong, but pretty decent interest in our student body to take Latin. We just didn't have teachers or programs or kind of not knowing how we started. So we offered an evening Latin classes and now we have 14, 15 kids taking evening classes. Eventually now we're going to bring that into our daily school calendar, rather.
Sometimes you try different things, same concept will work for one thing but not for the other.
Debra Wilson: That's so interesting. And it's great that you can let it go. You can try it and be like, you know what? It's not taking for whatever reason, but to grab the kernel of that concept and try it with something else. And my Latin teacher, Mr. Toll, would be thrilled to hear that you're offering Latin again and that it's making a comeback.
Jalaj Desai: Yeah, it's making a comeback.
Debra Wilson: Yeah, that just makes me happy as a former English major.
So you and I had a chance to talk a few months back about some of the really exciting ways you're developing and using technology for your school. We talked a bit about AI, you've referred to that already. Talk a little bit about that initiative, kind of like where it came from and what's worked and what hasn't. I think a lot of schools are wrestling with how do we use AI more readily? How should we be thinking about it?
And particularly, you talk about the teacher experience. And as you know, my feeling about AI is it can help reduce teacher load, mental load, a fair amount, and that teacher experience is going to become more and more crucial to our schools. So talk a little bit about that initiative and what's worked, maybe what hasn't, and how do you feel like it's helping that teacher and the student experience in your school?
Jalaj Desai: It has been a very, very interesting journey because, you know, before teachers realized that this is actually going to help them, the first reaction teachers get is this is more work for us. And it's a battle that, that you fight because you know that it's going to actually help everybody. Right.
So this all began especially for the AI journey about a year and a half ago where we were visiting India. I actually hired Kevin Merges, who's a chief global impact officer at our school. We were in India for some partnership work that we are doing in India in July and we came across a tech company. We were having conversations about AI and how that's going to impact education and all that. We were so impressed by the owner and then he kind of understood my vision, what I really wanted at our school. So we asked him to come to our school for a feasibility study to see how AI can actually change or make an impact. And at that point, we had zero idea of where we were going with it. We had a vision in our mind. We knew we wanted to offer more personalized learning for our kids. And that was the initial goal.
So when he came, we spent about two months with our teachers understanding what education is, how AI can help, what teachers are going through, what struggles they have, what they would like to see in an AI product versus kind of adopting in a random AI product out there. And every teacher is going to feel comfortable with having his or her first choice. So we wanted to kind of avoid having like 15 different AI products on our campus with kids are getting confused. Parents are getting confused. Teachers are getting confused.
We don't really have people to train teachers in that capacity. So we kind of went on this route and we decided to focus on making our own AI product, which turned out to be a bit more expensive than we thought, but I think it was the right investment in the product.
So our teachers, our administrators, our students, they all got involved in this particular project where the consultant asked them all the questions and we met as a team, we figured out this is what we want. So it becomes very intuitive. When teachers design a product for teachers, it's a lot better product.
Debra Wilson: It's a very different thing, right?
Jalaj Desai: The frustration came from the tech companies because they are not used to all of that. And as teachers, sometimes we think something on today, like X today and tomorrow we have a whole different point of view because we came across a different situation.
So a lot of changes were happening. In that process, what I thought was the best thing happened to the school is, forget the outcome, the learning our teachers and administrators did about the AI was so critical in terms of understanding what is AI? What can it do for our community? What are the limitations we have? How do we go forward in terms of implementing this?
So we slowed down a bit, because I thought that we were going a bit too fast on that one. And teachers need time because we still have to remember teachers still have to teach and do all the amazing things they do. So while the calendar year is going on, school year, it's hard to implement new tech as we go on.
If you implement it too quick, we're going to completely lose the battle, right? We're going to have any buy-in from teachers or admins. So we are going slow and we are hoping that next month we can have another kind of a launch of the product with our faculty and have some really cool tools to show them what they can do, especially as the APs come closer, especially in the lower school, they're going to have speech to text AI avatars coming up and middle school end of the year exam reviews and all the homework stuff. So we're pretty excited about what's going to happen next month.
Debra Wilson: So would you describe a little bit, I have a little bit of the insider scoop in that you took the time to walk me through it, but would you describe to our listeners, sort of like what it does, the version that I saw, I think it was last spring, maybe in the summer, was like the base version. So like describe a little bit what that is, what it does, and then what this next iteration might look like. Where has this grown? Because I haven't caught up on the next part of the subplot that you have going on over there.
Jalaj Desai: No, it's OK. I think one of the things that, as I said, we want to keep it simple, just like any other innovation we did. So we decided that we're not going to do something crazy, something fancy with it. In terms of, we don't want our product to create PowerPoint presentations on the content. That's not what we want to do.
So the way this system works is like any other glorified chat GPT is out there for the teacher side. They're able to create content, you're able to enhance content. You're able to create assignments and or upload what you have and ask AI to simply enhance it for you. So it kind of works as a chat GPT side of it. On the same platform for teachers, teachers are then able to, once the LM creates the product or content, teachers are able to kind of then change it just like a Google Doc and able to save it. And they have their own AI assistant that teachers train as they go on.
And then on the student side, students are now able to view the lessons or whatever the content was created, and they can take the assignments on the same platform. Then the platform actually gives them a feedback to students on the spot. They could be multiple choice questions, short essays, long essays, whatever kind of questions they want. And then gives them a grade and a feedback right away. And then students are able to see the kind of why, what they got it right, what they got it wrong and the reasons behind it. And then practice assignments based on what they got wrong so they can get better at learning those things.
The teacher side, they're able to see the data. How much time kids are spending on these assignments? Why are they getting these questions wrong? Kind of look for a pattern, right? On the administrative side, we are now able to see as a school what teachers are posting, what kind of assignments, and how kids are reacting to it. If we keep this internal going, this whole system, the data that we get from this, it's going to make learning so much better for the kids and enhance teaching because we can look at, look for the patterns of kids and how they progress over the years or in different subject areas. And that's the goal. The goal is to kind of collect all the information about each child and then tailor it so that the kids get their own sort of education based on the content, versus having just one lecture for everybody.
By having this AI platform, we'll be able to truly personalize the learning because will have so much data, then if kids ever get stuck, whether it's an assignment or let's say there's an assignment of 10 questions and a kid gets stuck on number three, they can simply go to the AI assistant of a teacher and ask the question, hey teacher, I don't understand how do I do number three?
You and I both know that as teachers, we cannot grade every night. It's, homework for every child is impossible. So this system, what allows it to do this, you post a homework, kids are able to do the homework on the system and they get the grading and feedback right away. In fact, kids get so excited for this thing. Now they know the answer. You know, one of the biggest frustrations I've ever had is as a teacher also that I was not able to give everything back in time for the kids. You know, when they take any assignments or any assessments, took me weeks or months, especially if you teach history or English. And by then the kids forgot what, you know, what they learn and what they get right and wrong.
So this instant feedback and instant grading, sometimes I've seen smarter than what humans can do. It's so impressive and it's so beneficial for kids’ learning. They're learning in a timely manner. And as you and I both know, the attention spam of our kids and teachers is getting shorter and shorter. Having this instant feedback will absolutely help kids learn effectively.
Debra Wilson: How did you get the teachers to sort of trust that system? I hear a lot of kind of skepticism of that feedback. When chat GPT like kind of first sprung on the scene, I remember I was on a Zoom with a bunch of heads and somebody mentioned, would you let AI give that student feedback? And it was really interesting how quickly like all the heads even chose a camp. So like, how did you work through some of that with the teachers?
And are there things that your AI is sort of designed to do that made teachers feel better about that piece of the step?
Jalaj Desai: Well, I think first message was very clear. We're going to embrace the AI from the get-go. If anybody had any doubts, we had conversations with them one-on-one or on groups. We are not going to run away from AI. AI is here to stay. It's not going anywhere. And the sooner we adopt this, it's better for everybody.
So it is still a struggle. It's never going to be that easy for all the faculty and staff to come on board. Again, it's the change, the word change is scary for a lot of teachers. And they just need some time to think about it. So I would say probably half of our teachers are right now on board on this. The rest, 25% can go either way with a little bit of training and a little bit of kind of encouragement. They're working on it. We're going to get there. The last 25%, you know, it's going to be challenging.
It's like any other school, right? We are still a typical independent school. Our teachers are still human beings and they love what they do. They love to teach. So when there is a doubt, it's because they want to make sure that what we're doing is right by the kids and by them, right? So it's still a bit of uncertainty about how to use AI in some of the classes that traditionally wouldn't work in the classrooms, the technology.
So that's something that we are hoping that the other teachers who are using the AI so effectively, they will be able to help us with the culture. But we are determined to, as a school, to do this, right? AI is here to stay. So sooner we get on board, as a whole community, as a whole faculty, it's much better for all our kids.
Debra Wilson: So what does the new version look like? Tell me what bells and whistles you're kind of adding on as you go. Because the version I saw, again, was pretty, you know, it was like an LMS with like, a sort of AI bot on top of that. And teachers were kind of training it. So tell me, is that going next?
Jalaj Desai: Well, I think the biggest thing for us is getting students kind of a learning pattern that we are trying to figure out as a backend. It might not seem like bells and whistles, but as I told you, I think one of the things we are focusing on is how do we make kids' lives better and how do we truly personalize the learning?
So a lot of the times that what you collect, the data behind is, like in the backend, it's so much more powerful than what you actually see on the screen. And our goal right now is to use AI in a way that it can improve kids' learning and make it more personalized. Right. So right now we are kind of focusing a lot on that. Plus, I mean, of course, like all the fancy things we are having the talk to speech avatars. So little kids can actually talk to the avatars and they can talk back, because little kids can't really type much. Teachers will have their own kind of faces or AI avatar and the way it will sound like them.
Plus, we are kind of looking into more math and science, AI based technology, because there's still limitations in terms of mathematics and formulas and stuff that we have kind of found a way to help with it. But a little more advanced technology will definitely go a long way.
But what I really want is my own avatar right outside my office, where little kids can come and say, hey, Mr. D, what's the weather going to be today? And then my avatar would say, hey, Johnny, here's what's going to be. So having a conversation with little kids in the lower school, that would be really cool. So we're kind of trying to find ways to make AI fun. At the same time, make it more relevant in kids' life and not just on the tech tool that exists.
But the answer to the question is data, data and data. We're trying to figure out what we do so that we can actually help kids learn and make it more personalized. It could take one, two, three years. We'll see how it goes.
Debra Wilson: I just, I think it's so exciting and I can't wait to see where it goes next because, you know, change is hard, but it seems like you have a great team that has jumped in with both feet and, you know, just to see what's possible, which is amazing.
Jalaj Desai: Our AI integrator is just walking right by us, here in the office. He's an amazing, his name is Roman. He's from industry. He worked for Bloomberg Associates for a couple of years, but he loves kids' interactions. So he decided to join school and he teaches computer science classes, a couple of them. He does all the AI work with our kids and teachers. And he is so passionate about this that other teachers and kids want to just jump, jump on board. So having the right people is the key.
Debra Wilson: So let's talk about that a little bit because you established, I think it's a Center for Technology and Computer Science, right? And is that where a lot of this innovation is living right now?
Jalaj Desai: Two areas. So one is CIE, which is Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship, and one is CTCS, which is where we're focusing a lot on tech and computer science classes. We didn't really have, you know, we just had a couple of classes like AP, CompSci, and basic courses like that. So we wanted to really kind of dive deeper in CompSci field and offer courses like Python, AI, different learning language models.
And how actually software development works and algorithms, more like college style courses. Because right now, AP only offers two computer science classes. One of them is pretty simple. So our courses have gone from just offering two AP classes to now computer science one, computer science two, AP computer science A, AP computer science principles, advanced computer science that has AI and other classes.
And just really offer like small mini courses, I would say, as part of the clubs and stuff that kids are just coding, going to different competitions, running hackathons. So we wanted to kind of establish a center that focuses solely on that aspect of it, just like our CIE was very successful and we want to replicate that model for CTCS. Our hope is in a year or two it will become as successful as the CIE has been in the last few years.
Debra Wilson: That's fabulous. And you've taken this kind of next level, right? Because like you've got virtual reality classrooms happening too. So tell me a little bit about that and how does that fit into this as well?
Jalaj Desai: One of the key elements is, I’ve got to tell you, also is that when you start all these things, the results are nowhere to be found in the next three to six months once it launched, right? You’ve got to be patient through all this. So in the virtual reality classroom, the idea was that we wanted to start with one classroom that looks like Saddle River Day classroom. So we actually had the whole technology that they came in and they did the whole shoot and then they produced a classroom that looks just like one of the classrooms that feel on campus.
And eventually we're going to build the whole campus online in the virtual reality area, right? Where any kid sitting anywhere in the world is able to actually go into our virtual classroom and learn. We have partnerships in India. We just launched partnerships in UAE and African nations. So we're trying to figure out how we use those old partnerships so that kids can go to our virtual classroom and learn something really cool, right? Not necessarily your regular AP classes or regular class, but something really cool that can be beneficial in that virtual reality environment.
So the idea is that the kids will really walk in virtually into one of the classrooms. They go to the buildings and sit down in a classroom and learn. That's where we are trying to build it, but it's taking a little longer than we would have hoped for.
Debra Wilson: But you're keeping at it. Sounds like you've not lost track of the dream yet.
Jalaj Desai: No, because some dreams you let go, right? In terms of because it doesn't work out, there are clear signals to do that. Some dreams you keep going because it's going to take time. It's going to, you gotta be patient. You need to go through a lot of stuff, especially when a school that is going through so many different cool things and changes. You just have to make sure your resources are divided correctly, right?
As you know, we are breaking ground for a brand new science, hall of science and entrepreneurship. It's a 34,000 square foot building that's going to focus on learning in a new way. We're going to have some really cool specialty classrooms, brand new science labs, some common spaces. And that's kind of, as you can imagine, taking a, not a toll, but it's a big point of discussion in our community right now. It's a $20 million project and we will do fundraisers, all that within a year to kind of support fast-paced construction that's going to start in a week or so, and hopefully done in a year. So we can go into the building and do all these cool things that you want to do.
Debra Wilson: I love that project ,and I was actually in Minnesota recently and I was talking to a head of school and he was talking about just what a gift it is to create a space centered on like the pedagogy or where you're trying to go. So as you're designing this space, right? And you're trying to move along pretty quickly. What are you thinking about?
You know, a lot of schools are going into construction projects or they're looking, you know, particularly when I've traveled around the country, I see a lot of, you know, science or technology buildings and there are really cool things you can do now. Like, how are you centering those kind of design principles? How are you thinking about that?
Jalaj Desai: Well, I think the key is just be prepared for the unknown and keep your spaces flexible, that you can turn them in like every couple of years. So one of the areas, a front of our building is our showcase area, that we'll have three or four different specialty classrooms along with the exhibition space where things will be showcased, kids will go there, learn different things. But that could change every couple of years based on what's happening on campus.
So that whole area is going to be very flexible in terms of looking ahead, not necessarily having some sort of a lab that exists. No, that would be something cool that will keep changing every couple of years. The other thing is I also want to make sure we go back to bit of basics in terms of what we offer. We actually lost library in the last three, four years because of our growth and also the COVID years, we had to use every single inch that we had and then it never came back. So we want to bring a library back but in a way that is modern. So we kind of are having discussions about what does that look like? It's important for our humanities department to have a well-resourced library which will be beneficial for all the kids, right?
So resource centers is, I think one of the things that I've learned in this building, we met with the architectures and say, Give us the rooms and some rooms which will only have three walls, some will have four, some will have exhibition areas, some will be like open, and then let us decide as teachers how we're going to do that. And our team will come up with some sort of a plan how we are going to actually implement those programs in our building, because there are so many things that we do on campus and everybody wants a piece of the new building now, as you can imagine.
So we have to be really creative in terms of how we not only use the new building, but also use the existing space that we have and how do we restructure it to meet the demands of all the innovation that's happening on campus, whether it's English or whether it's computer science.
Debra Wilson: How are parents receiving all of these things? How are you, you know, kind of managing those expectations while also doing the new stuff? How is that working and what are you thinking about there?
Jalaj Desai: Well, I mean, there are some real challenges as we grow the school and construction. The real thing is that this morning, in fact, I had a meeting with a set of parents and they would like us to use AI for communication, in terms of how we are communicating with the parent body and where they can find all the information. Because one of the things that we as a school are struggling, and I know a lot of schools are struggling also, is there's just, you know, there's so much information out there. I feel like everybody's emailing so much that actual information is being lost somewhere. So even though you say, it's right there, but they don't know that. There's so many areas.
So we just had a meeting with this group of parents who are interested in helping us with figuring out how AI can actually help parents get this information without actually bothering any of us. So these AI bots we're talking about, or AI generative tools that we have. So now we're going to work with the AI industry and they're going to help us kind of get there. So we set up a meeting with our tech company to say, OK, how do you do that?
The parents are actually very excited about AI. They just want to make sure that we use it in a way that's going to help not only kids, but also them, help the parents, and improve the oral communication. That we take full responsibility. It's not working well because there's so much information, so many emails going from everywhere. Parents are really getting overwhelmed with the amount of information they have right now and they lose track of what's important.
Debra Wilson: And this is where your avatar could come in handy too, right? You know, the parents could be asking your avatar about some of these things.
Jalaj Desai: Internally, we are asking our division heads right now, they are training their own avatars with information. So they're plugging all the information they have in their avatars. That's how they write emails, their style, the tone, the information they provide about the upper school or middle school or lower school, and then how that can help them eventually train the AI bot. So when the parents actually go ask them, it's trained enough to answer the way he or she would answer those questions. And that has been work in progress, which will launch them in the fall.
But having that data now for the next three to four months is going to be crucial, so that AI avatar can be trained for that. But that's one of the things about AI avatars is we don't, unless you train them, it's going to act weird in the first few months. And then if it gives the wrong information the first two or three or four times, parents are not going to go ask again, right? So you have to make sure that you are not releasing those avatars unless you've trained it perfectly
Debra Wilson: It's one of those things that has to be really good right out of the gate, early, early on.
Jalaj Desai: Right now you go to chat GPT and you can find out, or any other LLM, and find out about Saddle River Day school. It will give you 60% accurate information, right? About what it is. But the 40% it's not quite accurate and we can’t have the same mistake when they asking, parents are asking us about a lacrosse game date. We need to make sure we train it correctly.
Debra Wilson: OK, so we're, I know our time is almost up. If you could go back in time until 2019, you and your administrative team, right? You're at that retreat, you're laying out the game work. Like what are three things you would interject into that conversation? Like three, big takeaways from all the innovations that you've done, the path you've been on.
Like just three things that you'd wish you'd known either about managing this change, like set of changes, like what are those three things?
Jalaj Desai: Well, first, I wish I knew COVID was coming, which nobody expected. So I'll keep that aside. I won't talk about that. But one thing I would have absolutely included is the power of our parent community. We underestimated how much our parents are willing to help us for the right reasons and the right cause. We were planning everything as if we're just going to do everything and we're not going to need any help.
Fortunately, things worked out because parents stepped up. But if you didn't have a parent outreach in terms of how they can support, whether it's financial or whether it's a time, you know, I believe in time, treasure, talent, one of the three. If we can get one of the three from the parents, great, right? So I wish we had incorporated that in our planning. That was number one.
Number two, I wish we had started with more technological solutions in 2019. I think we would have done a lot of different work when it comes to humanities, in terms of how technology can be used in the humanities classes. We all are doing math and science and business and computer science and all that, but I feel we haven't focused a lot on English and history classes when it comes to technology. So that's something that, I wish we had done that.
The third thing is definitely something to do with philanthropy. And I don't know what that would be, but I feel like we started our gala and annual push just two years ago instead of five years ago. So if we had started that push early on, I think we would have been a little more successful. We're not complaining right now, what we have. We have a great campaign.
But if, as a team, we had come up with better strategies in 2019, I think those three years would have been as beneficial as what we have had now, because our gala used to do about 150 net and sorry, gross and about 50, 60 net. Now we had $600,000 gross and about 455 net out of it. So it would have been better, you same thing with annual funds and capital campaigns. So having some sort of a plan for philanthropy from early on would have been beneficial.
Debra Wilson: Excellent. This has been such a fabulous conversation. I just love hearing all of the things that you're doing. Thank you for coming on and sharing them with us.
And I can't wait, maybe in a year, 18 months, we'll do another follow-up and see where everything has landed. And I can't wait to come to campus and see the new building. So I'm really looking forward to that.
Jalaj Desai: That's we are very excited for this jump from 300 to 545 and where we end up with, very stabilized based on the capacity honestly of the building, of the town, of the roads in this area.
But more importantly, whether it's 600 or 800 or 500, what are the number of kids we end up with? It's to offer them something unique, something so innovative that they cannot find anywhere else. And every independent school should strive to do that, because there's enough market for everybody and unique ways to attract different kids. Kids learn differently, schools offer differently, teachers teach differently.
So there's so many opportunities and I'm excited to see what NAIS is going to actually be doing in the next few years to kind of focus on academic excellence in the time when we have become, everything is so polarized, so politicized. We are focusing purely on academics and I hope that NAIS can stay true to academic excellence and then whatever we can do to help out or we would love to be part of the journey with NAIS for sure. So thank you for having me.
Debra Wilson: Thank you for being here and I'm sure we'll catch up soon.
Jalaj Desai: Absolutely.