Read the full transcript of Episode 20 of the NAIS New View EDU podcast, which features NAIS President Donna Orem joining host Tim Fish to moderate a roundtable discussion on workplace trends, hiring, and leadership. They are joined by three heads of school: Crissy Cáceres of Brooklyn Friends School (NY); Brett Jacobsen of Mount Vernon School (GA); and Doreen Kelly of Ravenscroft School (NC).
Tim Fish: Welcome back to New View EDU. It is hard to believe that we're at the last episode of season two. I am so excited to welcome Donna Orem, president of NAIS, back to the show for our closing conversation, with a panel of three school heads. Donna, welcome back to New View.
Donna Orem: Thank you Tim. It's really great to be here.
Tim Fish: When I talk to educators, I often ask, what is the most important ingredient in a thriving school? What's the secret sauce, if you will? And almost without exception, folks answer with one word: The people. Simply put, great schools are filled with amazing educators. Yet, everywhere you turn, you hear about the Great Resignation and an emerging teacher shortage. How can we support the people who work in our schools today, and ensure the development of the next generation of impact educators?
This will be the focus of our conversation today. And to get there, we’re joined by three school heads who bring deep experience in this area.
First up is Crissy Cáceres. She’s the head of school at Brooklyn Friends School in New York. Crissy is a longtime friend of NAIS.
She was a member of Call to Action, an NAIS think tank devoted to social justice efforts. She's a faculty member at the NAIS Diversity Leadership Institute. She co-chaired the People of Color Conference when it was in Philadelphia. And she recently joined the NAIS Board.
Prior to joining the team at Brooklyn friends, Crissy served as the assistant head of school at Georgetown Day School in Washington, DC. And throughout her career, Crissy has partnered with schools and organizations nationwide as a consultant, presenter and facilitator on various school leadership, social justice, school culture and student engagement topics.
At her core, Crissy Cáceres embraces the values of a joyful, experiential, equitable, and comprehensive education for all. Crissy, it is so great to welcome you today.
Crissy Cáceres: Thank you, Tim. It is an absolute pleasure and honor to be a part of this really important and timely conversation.
Tim Fish: Next up, we have Doreen Kelly, who leads the leadership team at Ravenscroft School as the Head of School, a position she has served in since July 2003. She joined the Ravenscroft faculty in July 1999 as the director of the lower school. Doreen is also a board certified executive leadership coach and has served on the faculty at the NAIS Institute for New Heads.
Prior to joining Ravenscroft, she had a 10-year career at Trinity Pawling School, an all-boys boarding day school in Pawling, New York, where she served as the Upper School director of studies, the head of middle school, an English teacher, and the volleyball coach. And before that, she taught English as a second language for two years in France. She graduated from the University of Pennsylvania with a bachelor's degree in English and a master's degree in education. She also studied for two years at Villanova University, where she played Division I volleyball.
Doreen, it is so great to have you on the program today.
Doreen Kelly: Like Crissy, I am so honored to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation and look forward to this conversation ahead.
Tim Fish: And our final head of school is Dr. Brett Jacobson, CEO and head of school at Mount Vernon school in Atlanta. As a current marketplace leader and CEO with 25+ years of experience, Brett has been able to collaboratively transform organizations through assembling high-performing teams, generating innovative ideas, and building exceptional brands while partnering with Fortune 500 and 1000 companies. During his tenure at Mount Vernon, the school has experienced exponential growth of more than 60 percent and now serves more than 1,200 students. The school is currently building a global campus through the launch of an online high school, MV Online. Additionally, Mount Vernon has a significant research and strategy consulting arm of the school known as MV Ventures.
Recognizing the heavy lifting of the team around him, Brett had the opportunity to be honored as the Most Admired CEO in 2017 by Atlanta Business Chronicle, and he served as a proud member of the Leadership Atlanta Class of 2013. Additionally, Brett is an R&D founder, board member, podcaster, and national and international presenter.
Brett and his team believe that redesigning student success and demonstrating student mastery requires all learning communities to develop a relevant and innovative learning and assessment map for each student and prioritizes the training and development of teachers in a fast-paced, digitally based global marketplace, leading Mount Vernon through a transformational period.
Brett, it’s so great to have you on the program today. Thank you so much for joining us.
Brett Jacobsen: Tim and Donna, thank you for inviting me. Grateful for your leadership. Blessed to be a part of this esteemed group.
Tim Fish: So what’s going on out there? Let's get into it. There is no question that the past few years have been incredibly challenging for everyone who works in our schools. I've been utterly amazed by what our schools have been able to accomplish. I have frankly never been more proud to be a part of the independent school community. And Donna, I'm curious, what are you seeing in trends and data from your vantage point at NAIS around talent, the workforce, and inspiring the next generation of great educators for our schools?
Donna Orem: Well, you know, the trends around the workforce definitely keep me up at night, maybe more than anything else these days. I actually believe that the most lasting impacts of the pandemic are going to be on the workforce. What I'll do is just call out a few trends and data points that I'm seeing. First, and everybody's reading this in the news today, schools, public and private alike, are struggling right now with faculty and staff shortages. In the independent school world, we found out in our last snapshot survey on this topic that about 28% of schools have experienced higher levels of faculty turnover this year and last year.
And we saw some significant numbers last year as well. And about 20% of schools are also seeing this with administrator turnover as well. You know, overall, 66% of schools have experienced significant shortages in substitute teachers. And this trend, I think, is really alarming. More than half of our schools said they had far fewer applicants overall for jobs.
This is really a concerning picture for sure. We've seen it in our own Career Center, where we are experiencing very high levels of new job postings, perhaps the highest level we have ever seen since we opened the Career Center, but we are seeing far fewer teachers browsing these job openings. So, you know, it's a little bit of a canary in the coal mine for us.
You know, on top of that, we're also forecasting that there'll be a massive exodus from the headship over the next five years. Some of these stats came in through the last leadership survey that we conducted, you know, perhaps it could be even as high as 50% of our heads retiring or leaving the profession in the next five years.
And in the near term, we are currently experiencing some of the highest levels of unexpected head turnover that we have seen in a decade. And this is heads that are leaving within one to three years of taking a job. We're just beginning to dig into the drivers and to see that, how those have changed since the pandemic.
Another trend that I'm seeing is just in the society as a whole, workforce compensation across the U.S. is at an all-time high. While this is good for employees, employers lacking the resources to compete financially could be in trouble. Some of what we're seeing with organizations that are less well resourced is to compete, they're offering four day work weeks, which could also be challenging for us.
And you know, at the same time, we know that many employees are looking for hybrid or remote work options. But schools are going to need to compete for talent in this really vastly changed marketplace. I think the opportunity here is to rethink workforce structures, and also to think about how our schools can be employers of choice in this quickly changing landscape.
Tim Fish: Thank you, Donna. You know, it's a challenging situation. It's what I hear about all the time also, when I talk to heads of school about what they're facing and what they're worried about. I'm wondering if, Crissy and Brad and Doreen, if you have thoughts about what you're seeing in your own schools or what you're hearing from your head of school colleagues out there.
Doreen Kelly: I'm happy to jump in, Tim. I would offer to back up some of what Donna has shared with us. And, in having conversations, I'm blessed to have two brothers who are also sitting heads of school. So we have this conversation quite frequently. And one brother shared, you know, it's a little like, and we've had this pre COVID too. We've had 50 pound bags built in with a hundred pound weights. And I think what COVID has done is, is accelerated the experience of that. We've known that for students for a long time and now, our workforce is experiencing that too. And I think what we've learned from that, is that that accelerant has brought to bear some intriguing conversations, looking ahead, with, with a balance of opportunity and hope.
And I think it will force our industry to create great clarity around our why. We're not able to be all things to all people. And I think the clearer we are with our missions, we'll have great clarity about who chooses to work in our environment, who chooses to study in our environment. But expanding our capacity around health and wellness for all members of our community, I suspect will be the key piece of the conversation going forward, at least for us and I suspect for many schools.
Crissy Cáceres: Doreen. That's an excellent transition to, to the thoughts that I was going to share. Tim and Donna, I mean, one of the things that's interesting is to be at 154 year-old Quaker school, in which what you center is the human experience, where you lift up as a value proposition components like love and joy and connectivity, and the ability to define your journey. When that is what is core to you in the context of the contemporary realities that you're naming, for us, that's become the reason why people are coming to want to work at the school. So, very interestingly, we are achieving a great level of interest in our school during this stage of people shifting and thinking about their lives, because what they name is you have been, you have been defining your school's experience by the very things that I feel will allow me to achieve greater wholeness and wellness in my life. And so there's a very interesting juxtaposition happening. It's also true of our students. As they're interviewing with colleges and universities, they're speaking to things that are very currently and present what is being defined as core challenges in our humanity today.
So that's one piece. The other consideration is that we are having this conversation as leaders. And I think that a really critical component, to Doreen's point about wellbeing for all, it's why we designed a role that will oversee wellbeing for all students and adults in the community, is that the conversation needs to be in the realm of participation and control.
So rather than have an assumptive stance of what we believe to be true, I think that our leadership has to be, to center ourselves with humility, to understand that we haven't had all of the right answers. And that perhaps, by the continuation of existing practices and systems, we have actually enabled a culture that hasn't optimized what healthy and whole existence in our schools look like.
But our colleagues know the answers. And so I believe that this is a matter of connectivity. An honest reflection about not just what we've done well, but quite critically, what we have not.
Brett Jacobsen: I think connecting to that, Crissy, is how to build greater capacity, greater leadership capacity for our executive teams and mid-level administrators as best to support and care for the faculty and staff within each of our, our schools. I think part of what you're saying, all of you are saying, which I think really sums up the past two years, is that the teachers are the real heroes in our communities.
They have carried the weight of COVID protocols and enforcing them. They have had to continue to be a high performing teacher to raise, continue to raise the bar, with that responsibility and obligation, that ethic that each teacher carries, they've seen the social emotional weight that students are dealing with. And their care for them, which weighs even heavier on a faculty and staff member. And then they're, they're managing their own family. They are the real heroes in this, in this conversation, as you all are, are pointing out. And one thing we've tried to focus on is this idea of work from your rest and rest from your work, because there's real fatigue and exhaustion, but I think what you're also pointing out is this loss of purpose and meaning for all of us.
If you look at Marcus Buckingham's work and his most recent book Love and Work, you find that both healthcare workers and the educational sector, two of the most meaningful, purposeful professions in the world, are struggling the greatest. And so I think that it connects to several questions that are in the book, Culture Renovation. You know, are your employees healthier after working within your organization over, over, let's say a two year period? Are they healthier because of it? Do they feel like they're a part of a bigger mission because they worked with your organization? Can they see how they are improving the lives of people because they've worked within your organization?
And so, and so finally, as a, as a point connected to the most recent research, is really thinking about the employee experience. From why they're attracted to your organization all the way through departure. And therefore I think including myself, as well as our colleagues across the country, to really focus on faculty and staff engagement. And Gallup's work right now is so, so good for us to really walk through with our teams, connect with our staff members about it, and knowing that they can live into their strengths every day, that they know what is expected of them at work, and that someone cares about them, them as a person. And so I think that our teachers are our greatest heroes, and yet how we can continue to support them, during a very difficult period, and really thinking about their engagement is, is going to be so helpful and impactful as we see the, the true impact of COVID really over the next several years versus looking back at the past two years.
Tim Fish: Yeah, that's right on. I mean, I think it brings me to, as you all were speaking, it makes me think back on some of the Jobs-to-Be-Done research we've done over the years. And you know, Donna, you and I have been working closely in this domain for like the last four years, began with the research we did on why parents choose to enroll their children in our schools.
And we also did research on why teachers choose to work in our schools. And even though that research was conducted before the pandemic, the results were predictive of, I think, a lot of what we're seeing today. I wonder if you could give us a little bit of an overview about some of that research and with some of the things we found when we were thinking about teachers and why they choose to enroll in our schools.
Donna Orem: Yeah, thanks Tim. First, for those not familiar with the framework, the Jobs-to-Be-Done methodology is based on the theory that people do not purchase a product or service for the sake of it, but rather they hire or fire it to fulfill a particular job to be done. So, you know, as you've all said, we were seeing some of these shortages, and people not going into teaching professions before the pandemic. So we did this research because we wanted to understand, along with the Gallup work, which I'm a huge fan of as well, what can we understand about what drives teachers to our schools? And we identified three different jobs.
Job one was really about fulfillment and outcomes. And it's a teacher who maybe is in a role where they don't see their expertise actually making a significant impact on children. And that may be for a number of reasons. So they're really looking for that opportunity where they can have impact. Job two is really about sort of a mutual agreement that one has as a teacher and, you know, they want to be part of a community where they're listened to, included, and respected, so that they feel that their voice is really one that's heard and respected when strategic decisions are made. And they don't want to be hindered by bureaucratic policies in a system or the administration. And job three is I think, you know, something that you've all spoken to, and that is just a feeling of being so overworked, overwhelmed, and stressed out, that they can't find work-life balance. And you know, these are teachers who feel like "I can be a great teacher. I can have an impact on children without sacrificing myself."
So I think as you think about those three jobs, and all of you have touched on these jobs in some way, I think you can see that, you know, the effects of the last two years are pressing on every single one of those particular jobs. You know, one thing that comes to mind right away is the political landscape is really affecting teachers' purpose and the feeling that they can have the outcomes that they want. It, certainly just the pandemic and the overwork and the teacher shortages, are really pressing on being overwhelmed. And I think, you know, that being valued is also part of that larger landscape, even if they feel valued at your school, I think a lot of what's happening today is just making teachers not feel valued overall. So. You know, I think for school leaders, I would urge them to look at that research, and try to understand where their teaching community is. And I think we have to really look at how we can mitigate those internal and external forces that are pushing on each of these jobs.
Tim Fish: Yeah, it speaks a lot to support. You know, one of the things we found Donna, as you said, is that really it's about how do we help folks that are in our community now feel that support. And Crissy, I'm really interested in Brooklyn Friends. It's a Quaker school founded in 1867, if I'm not mistaken. I'm curious about your perspective on how the Quaker tradition helps your team create that supportive culture committed to ensuring that all of our voices are heard and valued.
Crissy Cáceres: Thank you, Tim. It's a… a beautifully imperfect process, right? Because at the heart of your question is literally the diversity of thought and experience. And as a result of that, it means that we have to practice a lot of patience and stillness. At the heart of Quakerism is the idea that if you discern around your challenges, if you make space for those different perspectives, if you value that those different perspectives all have a place in the conversation, then a way can open. And from that challenge, you can collectively find your way to a different way of engagement, of channeling that challenge into a possibility.
So for us, it is a practice that we have to engage in on a constant basis. It also means that every time a new community member joins, you can't make the assumption that by osmosis, they will gain an understanding of that. You have to activate it as you would a curriculum in a classroom. And say, let's learn more about the why behind this so that people, people can understand purpose.
The other way, and it's a very important one, and I've had to learn this with great humility. Now in my third year as head of school, there is so much when we enter our schools that we inherit by virtue of history, practice, circumstance and experience. And early on, I had to recognize that part of our job as leaders in the schools is to understand that none of this is about who we are as people personally. That we represent a much larger context than our individual selves, and that our ability to sustain those moments and to be able to create space in ourselves to think our way through it, because that is why boards bring us into schools, is to understand that there's a larger context of my responsibility is to make space for that. And to bring it into the current moment and to then dissect the current moment by validating that which came before me.
That has been crucial in our Quaker context. Now, as a unionized Quaker independent school, serving children two years old through 12th grade, it has been a critical component of honoring the duality of our identities and relationship. And the last thing I'll say, Tim, is that you're asking a question that at the heart of it is, is informed by Quaker values, but it doesn't exist corner to Quaker practice. It is something that we use in every mission in every independent school in the world. We say we honor the worth and integrity of every individual in a variety of phrases in our mission. And so this moment that we're facing now is about going beyond our aspiration and acting upon the very things that cause families to invest resources and time into partnering in the world of parenting with their children and our schools.
And so it's time to face the commitment that we have made all along and consider the ways in which we have to rethink the way that we've acted upon those missions. Making space for how colleagues in our communities would say that care would live most.
Tim Fish: I love that notion of, it's what we all do, right? There's, there's a perspective that the Quaker, the Quaker schools bring to it, but it's, it's something that we all have been part of and are committed to. And this notion of making space and care.
You know, Doreen, for me, you know, your work as being a certified executive coach. I have to think that there are skills and dispositions that you've developed and have learned that you apply as a head of school with members of your community, staff, parents, students, and others. I'm wondering if there are some things you could share there that you've learned that lead to and help us think about how we support our communities at this time.
Doreen Kelly: Thanks, Tim. Boy, what an incredible journey to learn more about what it means in that coaching space and the rare opportunity to support NAIS through the Institute of New Heads. I would offer this, that, you know, every so many years as a head of school, I actually fire myself. Right? To force a period of reflection. Because I think core to our value at Ravenscroft is our lead from here framework, where we're talking about, how do we lead self? How do we work with others? And how do we change the world? And I think oftentimes in leadership, we're so excited to go change the world.
And those steps prior to that, right, and to think deeply about what does it mean to be curious? And I think that would be a big leadership development skill, and it's hard in a landscape that would push you in a corner of justifiable behaviors and justifiable emotions and experience. And to really hold a space of respect for someone who might have very different worldviews and experiences, and to hold that space of curiosity in our common humanity, right? How would we engage one another?
And so I think about that, and Donna knows this well, in terms of polarities, right? How do we show up as a leader in confident humility, for example. What are the upsides of working through that? What happens when I, you know, lead out of this extreme confidence, what are predictable downsides with that if I'm walking in humility that doesn't show up as courageous, for example? So kind of monitoring that. I think most of us get into leadership positions, because we fancy ourselves as being gifted at solving problems. And I have found over my career, I don't think I solve very many problems, but I do hold competing tensions on a daily basis. Right? And that's okay. Right. And, and to develop the skills.
So I think the coaching work and working with other leaders is an ongoing invitation. You know, there's times where I might perceive myself as being somewhat talented in creating psychological safety. Until some experience happens and I have to look myself in the mirror and say, wow, I have to reflect in that and trust and verify my own leadership style. And I think Crissy was pointing to that too. And the development of wholeness and working with each individual on how to create that space, that ongoing space, within our communities, that exhibit kindness and patience and grace. How we model that with one another, as adults and in particularly working with students, I go back to Sizer's work.
The students are watching. All of the time. And what a great call. What, what a worthy call to, as, as leaders to care deeply about the people who are on a day to day, Brett mentioned this earlier, are truly at mission central focused in on the kid. It is gifted work to be focused in on the people who are focusing on the kids as well.
Tim Fish: I love that. I love it. And Brett, you know, your school, Mount Vernon, is really known for your commitment to innovation, to design, to impact, to have students out in the world, doing real work that matters. And I've been always impressed, the way you achieve this goal is by really building a team, and supporting a team of individuals who are doing this work, as is true in, in all of our schools. I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit about how, how you all create a supportive culture and a destination workplace at Mount Vernon.
Brett Jacobsen: Tim, I'd love to get into that. I'd also like to kind of jump back a little bit with something that Crissy had talked about around the jobs to be done. We took that study from NAIS with our new parents. And we considered the last two years were new parents, because of COVID and the pandemic. And what's so, what's so interesting is that when you look at, by far the top category of those four, we wanted to use the same language for apples to apples comparisons. By far, the top category identified by that group was to develop a well-rounded person who will impact the world. And then there was a far distant second, third, and fourth.
So as a school at Mount Vernon, as a school of inquiry, innovation, and impact, to have a group of new people to your community, even in the midst of COVID, saying “to make an impact” was so affirming, in terms of the work that we have been doing in particular over the last decade.
And I think Tim, this really connects actually with your question. I think there are three particular areas that I'd briefly touch on. I think this is around, in terms of creating culture in a leadership team and the execution and the action upon a very ambitious vision. I think it comes down to questions, habits, and agreements. In terms of the questions, what's so interesting about that is, I'm running, currently, another lap with Lencioni's work The Advantage. If you haven't looked at it, I really challenge you to do so. If you have run some laps with that, I ask you to do it again because he asked six particular questions that are so important that we all need to run back through, especially coming out of the pandemic.
Why do we exist? How do we behave? What do we do? How will we succeed? What is most important right now? And who must do what? These are great fundamental, foundational questions that we need to revisit as schools, that I think will help employee engagement. We'll have a robust sort of a culture. So I think that when developing a team and the execution behind it, I think, answering these questions are particularly important.
I also believe that having some habits, that, you know, as James Clear talks about in Atomic Habits, you don't rise to your goals. You fall to your systems, whether those systems be good or bad, you're going to fall to those systems. And so what systems are, are we falling to? And that part of that is how healthy is your team and how aligned is your team. Also it's around, you know, what is your sort of operating system?
I know at NAIS, you talk a lot about, especially with your strategy lab, a lot about operating systems that need to be more prevalent in our schools. So how you identify this five to seven year target, these two to three year pictures, that set of one-year priorities and batch cycles, that are associated with that. You know, some of those happens– the habits, the flow of communication throughout your organization, you know, are particularly important. Also just the ongoing input that you're gathering from all of your constituents and even external people and the driving signals, beyond the world, beyond your own school environment are particularly important.
So questions, habits, and then agreements as a team. What are the agreements that you're working towards? And I just love, everybody has their own agreements. And if you don't have any, I would steal these all day long. And they're the equity labs agreements. The equity labs agreements about just whether you're staying engaged or even, even this one is around expect and accept non-closure. That's a tough one, especially for heads of schools, Type A, want a nice little bow wrapped around it. But how important that is, how just, it relates to, Crissy, what you're saying just about the messiness of human relationships. And there are no clean lines, sort of, around that.
And this idea of you know, recognizing the danger of a single story. I mean, all those agreements that are talked about in the equity lab is so, so good. So I just think when you're thinking about a team and you're organizing some systems and some processes, you know what's, what are some questions you're answering, some habits you're developing, and some agreements that you really rely on, when the going gets tough and the day to day can feel so heavy at times.
Tim Fish: I love it. Thank you so much for bringing those books in, Brett. You know, I think that that notion of, what can we do to inform our work? What can we be reading? What can we be thinking about? You know, summer is just around the corner. We are getting there. It is 72 degrees today in Baltimore.
And I am curious, is there anything that you all feel that folks should be putting on their pile to read this summer, or watch or think about? You know, I'm going to kick it off with a book that I pulled back from my graduate school days, Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. And just like, wow, it completely blew my hair back again. And that one, 1990, I think it was published if I'm not mistaken. And yet it got to this idea for me around this, how do we create a flow state and how a flow state is absolutely connected to wellbeing and a positive self-image. And so it was just something for me that really stuck with me. I would throw on the pile, but I'm curious. Anybody jump in with what you would throw on the pile for us to read this summer.
Donna Orem: I've been deep into this because we do an issue of looking ahead for summer reading. So I think the issue that we just sent out has about 60 titles in it. So my reading pile is so deep, that's going to take a while to get through, but one that I just finished is Brené Brown's book, Atlas of the Heart.
If you're not familiar with it, she walks you through 87 different emotions and experiences. And the thing that's really helpful is I, I love the way she organizes it, because it's all about the different places we go emotionally and how, unless we understand the emotion that we're in, in the moment, we often can't really make progress because we don't necessarily understand the emotion or how to get out of a negative space and back into a positive space. So, you know, I almost found it not as a book to be read all the way through, but almost like a guidebook to being human that I will keep with me for the rest of my life.
Brett Jacobsen: Donna, what's interesting is when you said that it made me think of Dr. Lisa Damour's work. She works with many of our independent schools and her work this year with us was really around this idea of emotions and around containment and expressions. There should be both. And it's not disregarding either, but understanding when to contain and when to express, I think that's great for not only students, but, but for adults. So, thanks for sharing that. And it looks like my colleagues are ahead of me on this reading cause that is on my list, but I have not read it. So, thanks for that extra urge there.
Doreen Kelly: It's a fine wine, Brett. It's one you're just, you're going to enjoy. Tim, I have to add to Donna's big list. She might have a number of these books, but I'll start with my throwback book, Tim, since you started us off in a throwback. I'm going to go revisit Parker Palmer's book, The Courage to Teach. And I think it's trying to bring that one back out and remind ourselves of that.
For our faith-based friends who might be listening in from a Christian perspective, Canoeing the Mountains: Christian Leadership in Unchartered Territory has been, even for our non-sectarian friends, just an incredible metaphor in this landscape, which I think is terrific. And top on my list, well, the book I just finished is Catherine Price's The Power of How to Have Fun. I want to revisit that, what's fun. And my next read is Susan Cain's Bittersweet: How Sorrow and Longing Make Us Whole. And so I'm really excited to dig into that cause I think we're, our communities have experienced traumas in lots of different ways. And thinking about that grief process, and that longing for wholeness is something all of our communities are eager for.
Crissy Cáceres: This is a great one. I'm just like, yes. Keep it coming. Huge nerd over here. So I'm going to speak to two favorite books at the moment. And a favorite newly found practice and organization. One is The Lightmaker's Manifesto: How to Work for Change Without Losing Your Joy. It is infused with practical exercises that guide the reader to really center themselves. All of the colleagues in our schools—and by the way, at Brooklyn Friends school, we do not use faculty and staff. We use the all-inclusive term colleagues. So when I say that, it means me, teacher, everybody. And so how do you do that in a context where change-making, right, shifting the course of humanity, making the world a better place, all of the things that define purpose, small and big, how do you do that without losing joy? With having that as a constant. What I love is that it practically engages the reader and challenges them.
The second is Dr. Talusen's book, The Identity Conscious Educator: Building Habits and Skills for a More Inclusive School. Now this is a fresh, hot-off-the-presses read. What I'm appreciating about it is that it's combining theory again, and practice, to really define inclusivity as a larger scope notion of belonging, of wholeness, of wellness. And contextualize it both in the student experience and the adult experience.
And then a practice actually introduced to me by the fabulous Caroline Blackwell, vice president of equity and justice at NAIS. And she introduced this to the entire Diversity Leadership Institute just weeks ago, was SKY Schools and the breathing techniques. It's an entire body of work founded on the role that varied breathing techniques have upon our neurology, upon the way in which we engage relationally, upon rest and balance, upon meeting complexity, readiness for it. And so anytime that you give leaders tools that can be amplified in the context of every member of the community is as great of an equation as you're going to get. And so I find myself doing now the straw breath and the other breaths to say, oh, I know this one is helping me with these three things in my central nervous system, for example. And so I'm very eager to apply some of that from a practical standpoint, into our day to day lived experience.
So those are, those are three top of mind at the moment.
Brett Jacobsen: Nice. Those are so good. Thank you for sharing that. In reading Marcus Buckingham's research and watching some of his webinars that he's been producing with HBR, I haven't had a chance to actually read the book Love and Work. So I want to match that read with the research and, and working through those webinars that he has been producing.
By the way, this is such a surprise, Tim, because I thought, I thought this was the most difficult question that was on today's docket because I didn't know this is, this is much more serious in terms of the responses. So I love that, by the way. I was thinking, trying to, how could I be creative with something, to be authentic here.
But I would add that the Last Dance documentary is something that I have not had a chance to watch, I think partly due to the fact that I grew up a Knicks fan. So to watch Michael Jordan, and having lost to him, is painful. But when they talk about teamwork, related to, as, as we're thinking about the, the research with Gallup and, and with what Buckingham is doing, when I look at it from a particular, a different sort of lens, I want to enjoy it just as a, as a basketball fan, but at the same time, think about it as a leader and, and certainly that has been, I put it out there to, to watch.
So I want to make sure that that's on my list this summer, and of course catching up on all sorts of podcasts that are available.
Tim Fish: What a great, what a great list. And the one I would also add on as we're talking about Brene Brown would be, I listened to the podcast she did with Liz Wiseman around the book Impact Players, which I thought was a phenomenal podcast that prompted me to get the book. Highly recommend it, and thinking about Impact Players and how do we start thinking about our team as we're thinking about how we move forward, what does it look like to develop impact players?So, just something to throw out there, also to put on.
And now to our last question. One of the things we've asked everyone in season two of New View EDU this season is, what's your hopes for the future of our schools, in the short term, medium term, long term. Which is what, as we go in, that inspirational idea of hope, what do you all hope that we can see in the future? Donna, I'll throw to you to kick off if that's okay.
Donna Orem: All right. Well, my greatest hope is that care for each other and devotion to the common good makes a return. It seems to have left the building during the pandemic, I think, in some of our community. And without schools-- and you've all talked about this --in which adults and the children alike are heard, valued and are thriving, mentally and physically, not much is going on without those kinds of foundations.
And I think to get there, we need to really relearn as a society what empathy really is. And just to call on Brené Brown's book again, she had a quote in there that I think said it all, and it went something like this. “We need to dispel the myth that empathy is walking in someone else's shoes. Rather than walking in your shoes, I need to learn how to listen to the story you tell and what it's like in your shoes. And probably most importantly, and believe you, even when it doesn't match my experiences.” That's where I think we need to go as a society. I think that's so important. And that's my greatest hope is that we can get there and that our schools can lead the way.
Tim Fish: Thank you, Donna. Anyone else? Jump in. Feel free.
Crissy Cáceres: I am sincerely hoping that we make use of everything that we've experienced as a way to punctuate that our courage has already proven its existence. That we have proven our ability to engage complexity, for which we didn't have a manual, we didn't know what questions to proactively ask. We had to engage collaboratively in ways that I think are historic in magnitude. We utilized tools and tactics that really step outside of the known boxes that we have cultivated our skills and honed our practices. We have remained humble and curious, in the moments where we didn't know what to do, and we allowed ourselves to remain there. I hope that we use that, in the best way possible, to take healthy risks and redefine the systems that have guided our practices all along.
The second is that I hope we center grace and curiosity and exploration as core elements of the ways in which we engage in our schools. That unless we are actually whole and joyous, it doesn't matter how fabulous or innovative or contemporary in our thinking we are. If we, as human beings in that context, do not feel cared for. And one thing that I will name as a head of color is the realization that we have continuous fishbowl experiences around us every moment of every day. Where there are people who do not necessarily feel that they have the same carriage of voice or power to utilize that voice and center it in a way that might live differently, lend differently, sound differently. Not because of criticism. Simply, when that is done, is this one matters too.
It is not a criticism to say you don't care. It's a criticism to say, I know you care so much that you want this voice too. And if we reframe our orientation to be not one about divisive engagement, but rather only when we have an inclusive space that is comprehensive, and not only do we ask the questions that we know have to be asked, but we ask the, what haven't we made space for? Only then will we have a whole and rich and challenging conversation that allows us to get beyond status quo. And that's my greatest hope because the children are watching, but they're not only watching, they're mimicking. They're mimicking.
And so we allow what we give permission for. We allow what we give permission for. Let's mind that.
Doreen Kelly: There's not much more I can say to build over and above what Crissy has mentioned, and I have deep and shared belief with your expression there. For me, it's simply the hope is in staying focused in connecting the head and the heart of our communities. My hope for communities, as a friend once said, is we want our families to know that we're most interested in the child you have dropped off, more than where you're going to drop the child off when you're done with us. That we would revisit the seventies, eighties language of the whole child, and mean it in every sense of the word. And that it is not additive to be concerned about children's hearts and spirits along with their minds.
And recognizing that every member of our communities are going to show up with their own unique conscience, their own unique convictions, their own unique commandments, and that we would be places that would hold that place of respect and grace and kindness. Not in an attempt to change each other's beliefs, but rather, be curious to understand in our common humanity, why you may see the world a little differently than I might see the world. And lastly, that we would be communities that would be equally committed to learning, leading, and serving one another, and raise a generation of children that are not historically inwardly focused in independent school, but actually outwardly focused as self-aware, compassionate and engaged citizens of an incredible democracy.
That would be my hope. Head and heart.
Brett Jacobsen: Well, I think it's difficult to follow the two of them on that, but I'm going to do my, do my best. It, in thinking about this, it made me think about convocation for us at the beginning of the year. And my hope is for some more bridge builders.
Bridges have been essential to the modern world. They have helped define us. Bridges are connectors. They deal with proximity where we become more proximate to each other because the bridge has been built. Crissy, connecting to what you said, what voices are we not hearing from? Bridges allow us to do that. And yet bridges have guard rails. Because they protect us.
They help us make wiser, hopefully wiser decisions. And bridges are vulnerable. We see that, how bridges are vulnerable today, across the globe. And it's through that vulnerability that allows us to, to be stronger in weakness. And to, to lead even from the back, as heads of school, to serve our communities in a way that can bring people together, ideas, people, sectors, to search for maximum impact. Bridge builders are important and we need more bridge builders.
And, and that's something that I'm definitely committed to continue to do, regardless of what that is. And I think we need more of it. So that would be my response to that.
Tim Fish: What a powerful, powerful ideas and hopes, and an incredible way to end season two of New View EDU. And I just want to say thank you to all of you for giving the time to spend in this conversation, for thinking with us. It's been an incredible, incredible joy to spend some time with you all. I really, truly deeply appreciate it.
Donna Orem: Thank you, Crissy, Brett, and Doreen for spending the time with us and for everything that you do. I mean, you know, with all of the isolation and the craziness of this world, it's very centering and joyful to spend an hour with you. And thank you, Tim, for bringing us together.